THE NEXT HILL CLIMB

[sandfab]

rich, i didnt see where anyone called anyone a ahole on that post but what the hell if its true then so be it they must be,its over for this year and by spring no one will remember so well start over then again.premo the next meeting will be nov 8 not sure where yet or what time.you are more then welcome to come all the help offered will be need.  rich you pulled off some great shows this year to be proud of and the club could use some of your help as well, trying to check on wireless speakers to make things better but then who knows. again the next meeting will be nov 8 and everyones welcome

so I guess that anyone who doesn't agree with you or share your cheery out look is a @$$ hole? what exactly did I do wrong to you or anyone else? I rottenly go out of my way to help people out in any and all ways I possibly can but I guess that makes me a bigger a hole! I am sorry if I spoke out about the hill climb at all! most all that I said I have heard from more people than I can count but no one seemed to want to stand up and say them out loud so I finally did! Believe me I am sorry I ever did and now know why nobody else was willing to. I came to this forum because I liked the great members, topics and general friendly family atmosphere. I wanted to make new friends that shared my life long love for the dunes NOT to make enemy's and feel unpleasant about being here. I have tried for most of my life to be a happy up beat person who enjoys helping others, something I have tried to bring with me to this forum so to be looked at as some kind of an @$$ even if it comes from Paulie really kind of sucks! Both my wife and I had a blast opening weekend at all the forum functions we attended as well as all the wonderfull people we meet!!! and where planning on attending some of the closing weekend activities but in light of recent comments that is not likely now   I have no desire to be somewhere I am not wanted or where I am thought of as some kind of @$$ hole!!! I try to offer any advice on this forum I posses in an attempt to help other out not to be some kind of @$$ hole. As A small business owner with a very limited advertisement budget I chose to continue to support this forum not because I am seeing much return on my investment but because I really like this forum and want to due my part to keep it! I am sorry if I don't agree with everyone all the time and I am sure not everyone agrees with me but I don't think any less of them for it. with the end of the season closing in on us this forum is what gets me thru the long hard off season, so I don't really want to fell uncomfortable here. I guess in the future I will keep my mouth shut as apparently my opinions are not welcomed maybe than I won't be  labeled something derogatory something that genuinely is hurtful to me!!!

[oldduner]

rich, i didn't see where anyone called anyone a ahole on that post but what the hell if its true then so be it they must be,its over for this year and by spring no one will remember so well start over then again.premo the next meeting will be nov 8 not sure where yet or what time.you are more then welcome to come all the help offered will be need.  rich you pulled off some great shows this year to be proud of and the club could use some of your help as well, trying to check on wireless speakers to make things better but then who knows. again the next meeting will be nov 8 and everyones welcome

Are you the same "paulie" that spent the last couple of years bashing the MSBA and the MSBA officers about everything from how the hill climbs were run, how and where meetings were held, crying about your posts being deleted on the MSBA forum, to officers not liking you?  Nothing worse than a born again.
You are correct, it is over for this year, and by spring no one will remember, and the same mistakes will be made again.  Ask just about anybody that came there to watch the hill climb, and they will make all the same comments about not being able to hear, and way to much time between runs.  If the only way you can take comments on how to improve the hill climb is by name calling and telling everyone they need to help, them you should not be inviting the public to come and watch.
I did not see anybody asking for help on this forum or the MSBA forum before the hill climb. In fact, you posted on the MSBA forum asking if any help was needed, and was told everything was covered.

[quad killer]

exactly the same that bashed the msba and everything they have done-in fact making our comments look like school children

I really don't give a rat's ass who doesn't like my comments-for the most part they are thought out and obvious things when it comes to an event and how it is run, not with the intention of hurting feelings but to better things for the future

I try to think before I speak and put my money where it is not only appreciated but also used in a beneficial way to the sport of sand racing

again Scott you did nothing wrong, no I won't be helping the hill climb any time soon, especially with a snot nosed kid who claims to run the hill climb-the only thing you run Kyle is your mouth!

Scott you are welcome at our events any time brother-infact cart blanc anything you and your dad want

[paulie]

well the devil makes me do it, i didn't call anyone a awhile but i can and it is still America so far so i can voice my opinion on any thing i don't like everyone Else's seems too. i voiced my thoughts on the msba and other things to and i think i still can and will,there good things and bad about msba and Ive said so many times and will again, Scott i don't know were you get off being the forum police and to have daddy stick up for ya,Ive made many friends on here and lost some its the way the cards fall,rich you seem to aways jump in and then back out and I'm sure ya have fun doing it.Ive said many times rich you pulled off a great show and I'm sure ya will again and if you choice not to help another group out thats fine also even if your help would be great or not.it just seems that it alway the same BS from the same ones, i may be one of them and don't care,if ya don't like what Ive got to say don't read it if it hurts your feelings,Scott you seem to have your mind made up about everthing and have better ideas but where are ya when needed,maybe its just easier to bitch about, but then thats my nature to bitch,so yes i guess I'm the one that bitch's about everything i can but it sure keeps everyone on there feet    NEXT MEETING WILL BE NOV 8  and looking for more ideas and thoughts if you've got any left, i don't think having a show at a track with ever thing set up is the same as at a hill that gets used 2 times a year but what do i know and if I'm the one bashing everone rich at least i can still help when needed and not just step back and bitch about it, I'm thinking if you've got some ideas you could help out but then not.thought i said it before, its over this year but its still fun being in the mix but by spring it will start all over again,and what does a small buss have to do with anything, we are all trying to make it in this world one way or another so be it we have to do what we can to survive at this time.over a month has went by and nothing has changed it is what it is and will be till more people come on board to help out and i don't need in dollars either but it all helps,man i don't know where to stop but i will and I'm sure it wont die out.  RICH BITE ME

[Pyro]

Now we're getting into personal attacks, which doesn't help either side improve the hillclimb.

Both sides need to relax, take a step back, and get back to the matter at hand.
For those that may have forgotten, that would be, "How can we make the hillclimb a better event for the public, the racers, and the staff?"

Keep that in mind. None of these personal attacks (From EITHER side) are helping in that goal.

[Pyro]

Ideas to make things run smoothly:

Run the speaker signal wirelessly to the t-shirt tent and have some of the loudspeakers set up over there. I'm not sure on the price of equipment as I've never personally tried such a thing. I do know, however, that it is possible and not too bad to set up. You can use the electricity from the DNR bathroom if they will allow it, or run a second generator at the t-shirt stand.

There should be a pre-determined staging lane. Some of the problem with the speed of the hillclimb is waiting for the cars to get to the hill. When E class cars are running, E class cars should be in line, and D class cars should be called to staging.

The breakdowns are unavoidable and unexpected as you know, but the improved speakers would have helped a lot with that. Naturally I could hear everything because I wasn't only close to the speakers, but I was also close to the main tent. If everyone knew that it was a safety issue with the grader car, much few people would have complained about it.

I've said it before, but the timing lights need to be set up higher. They need to be set up high enough that cars cannot jump them and start timing on the back tires. The Sierra Sands car jumped the lights on at least one run that I saw, and gained approximately .8 seconds doing it. (3.7 seconds to 2.9 seconds.) I think it would be a simple matter to raise the lights, as you have lots of room on the steel posts they are mounted to. There's no reason that I know of to have them that low to the ground.

I agree with some points that both sides have made, but I also think that both sides are going too far. Yes, the MSBA does a good job with the hillclimb based on what resources they have, but yes they can also do better. If nobody puts on the show, there will be no show to watch; and if nobody complains, you will not know what needs to be/can be improved upon. There can be a middle ground, you just need to be able to see things objectively.

Am I missing anything?
Mary, Kyle, Paulie, Rich, anyone else I may have missed, I am asking you specifically.

Also, lets keep in mind the suggestions that have already been made and perhaps give them some feedback?

[paulie]

tony, it is what it is  just a reason to complain it wont change but we can try

[quad killer]

don't need in dollars either but it all helps,man i don't know where to stop but i will and I'm sure it wont die out.  RICH BITE ME

LOL
no I don't enjoy it, the controversy that is
If you stop and read the complaints from the people who had the nuts to post then you might have a shot at fixing something

[paulie]

OK rich tell us where we can get wireless speakers and the cost that would be start and help go on from there and not all the negative feed back ,you didn't pull off your show by yourself and if ya did it was still a great show all the better for you. all anyone has said is the bad things that where out there that day and not how to fix it or any help,most of the ones complaining don't even have a idea how to pull it off or how to help,and did you pull off you show without problems????there sure is not the money to do all the great things that could be done. I'm sure there are people out there that could help with the speaker set up but don't or wont we cant change that but if everyone that had a complaint would come out with ideas and not just complain it could work. with all the ideas that everyone has the next meeting is Nov 8 mid state somewhere to be decided. rich you of all people should know be now that I'm going to speak my mind good or bad,to old to change, some times it help sometimes not but I'm out here for fun nothing more nothing less.send me your ideas and see where it goes and ill be the first to say that some things don't change like they should no matter what and some things don't get fixed like they should but theres so few people doing all the work for everyone,like the buggy to grade the hill broke i think 4 times that day,I'm sure if Scott wanted to work on it for advertisement msba and dnr would let him, nothing about Scott but it will set there till spring and will have the same problems again,its the little things that need help, may be if we cant come up with wireless we could come up with a idea to leave the wires up all the time and just plug in,things that need to be done by someone that is a little closer to the dunes. the hill climb comes off pretty well for being done by part time people and as a sport not a full time deal, it would be nice to see more people get involved to help instead of all the bs.

[mwillis57racing]

Ok enough is enough. The hill climb is run the way it is run period. I have helped for my share of years. Everyone complains reguardless. Everyone with ideas step up and help period. Stop complaining. Rich spends a whole year to plan events not one week. I didnt even read any posts about the hill climbs until a week before. Sorry but we all do it for the fun if it. Its all about trying to get that big trophy. If help is needed it needs to be asked for weeks in advance not on the Sat before. If your going to race race if your going to help help if not sit and shut up.

[paulie]

well put

[sandfab]

now this has nothing to due with the climb or the msba! Paulie can you say pot calling the kettle black! what are all these things I bitch about than due nothing to help with? was it when sponsorship levels fell to next to nothing and I jumped into help with my own money or all the time I spent trying to find other sponsors? or was it all the time and work I put in trying to help with the firetruck project that you could be nothing but negative about?I would have jumped at the chance to help with the hill climb before all this began if anyone had ever looked for help!I didn't need a personal invitation just to know that help was wanted or would even be accepted! and I would be more than willing to speak to Pete about being aloud to maintain the DNR buggy free of charge I don't need everything I due to bring personal gain! I don't know if you have ever actually read any of my post,if you can read because you certainly can't spell but hey neither can I thats why I use this cool thing called spell check so I don't appear ignorant. I am pretty sure you never bothered to read them because most of the time you can't even get what was said judging by your miss guided responses. I am NOT judgemental of others or there ideas!!! and I never believe to be always right or to know everything! if that was the case why would I bother asking members for help with matters I don't know? And there is no way I have enough ego to think I am better than everyone else!!! I am not the one to look down on others if they don't have a fancy toy or a unlimited budget to play with!  Forum police? I don't understand first I did not bring msba post here as well as I did not going looking for it I have better things to do! A friend brought it to my attention! you know friends a concept that is probably foreign to you because I have NO idea why anyone would ever purposely spend any time with you! I have a question what have you ever done constructive for all the bitching you do? at leased I put my money and hard work where my mouth is!!! I really could care less of your opinion of me but when you seem to want to slam me personally every chance you get thats when I have a problem with it!!! I don't need anyone to stick up for me trust me I can more than take care of things myself!!! I did not speak to my father about any of this thread before or during this saga. is he aware of it yes he is here daily and entitled to voice his opinion. just like you and I but it seems you are the only ego manic aloud to bitch about everything than does NOTHING have you ever said anything good about anyone on this forum or any of there ideas? is anyone out there anywhere is great as you believe you are? I have tried not to sink to your miserably low level but I have had enough so I guess you win! Personally I am done with this thread and topic so you can feel free to show you ignorance and run your mouth all you wish!!! personally I have better things to do and generally try to be a better person than this so before I end up as miserable
as you I'm done and OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[primojeep]

Paulie,

Keep the string alive, if Nov 8th is the meeting I WILL meet many of you, providing its early enough in the day to get there. I agree I am not local and it would be hard to help too much from down here BUT I am willing to try. Anyone in the MSBA remember a guy named Sy Taylor? He and my father were regulars members in the early years of MSBA.

Quad Killer,

Again I don't want to be perceived as throwing stones in a glass house. I am only offering my help. I don't know who has done what for how many years, or what has worked and what has not in the past. I am sure your event went off well. Hell I wished I had a truck like yours and I am not even sure of your first name?

Pyro,

I agree with you completely, lets focus on the task of listening and seeing what can be done. The first step in improving anything is listening to the people who speak out.

For those involved in the show,

I believe all of you did a great job with the hill climb this year. I don't think anyone would disagree that there were more people here for this event than any other in the last 40 years? You cant make a contingency plan for broken, unexpected spectators or unhappy people because it moves slower than they expect. HURRAH for your dedication ALL of you involved.

Dumb questions?

I believe the only dumb question is the one not asked, after all if I have a question, chances are that 100 others have the same question just too embarrassed to ask.

1. Would the DNR consider opening the chain link fence for the event? It would eliminate the need to see saw the contestants back and forth to get lined up and would also create a staging lane for each of the competitors to be lined up for their chance to climb. Its a cheap change and repair, about $10.00 worth of chain link ties each year. The staging lane could be the dirt lane that runs from the rest room to the entrance. Line them up from the entrance back to the hill? For TWO days a year I suspect the everyone could use the pavement to approach hill.

2. I could be wrong but I don't think that the sand freezes much deeper than two to three feet. If that is correct I suspect a few hundred dollars of donations or disbursements would allow for the club to bury some PVC from the Hill stand to the T shirts stand and then bury the wires to run the extra speakers, AC and all. Of course I suspect it would need DNR approval? Then they would be there for each year the hill climb could be held until the hill finally wins and they could be easily removed.

3. With the state hurting as much as it is I suspect they would like to capitalize on any revenue they can. This year I observed there was no parking anywhere on the sides of the road. Why not sell parking spots along FOX and possibly other roads for those that want to watch the event. It would not interfere too much with the voucher line if they sold the other side of the road. I would think that the township or city could even benefit from that type of income, even it is only twice per year.

You may have all had the same ideas and already fought the battles, again remember that I am only offering what ever help I can in an effort to keep letting people enjoy the wonder that we all share.

[primojeep]

Sand Fab,

As I said earlier, I know nothing about who has invested time and energy but if you were involved dont let any one run you off.

[paulie]

primo the meeting will be nov 8 at i think 5 oclock around lansing some where,scott i just dont think you can stop your self so we will see,and i can rant and rave any time id like to and dont need yor ok you seem to do a ok job yourself,dont know were you get your ideas but yours are the only ones that count so bite me, we will see how long it takes to open your mouth again and f spell check you get the idea you so smart read between the lines